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rideforever

Same Practice : Different Results

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It reminded me though of something very strange I have noticed in practitioners of the inner arts; which is that people are doing the same practices in completely different ways internally and getting two completely different results.

It seems few people notice this.

 

For instance with Zhan Zhuang practice (and it is the same for all traditions and practices); one type of person talks of alignment, of standing in particular postures that are powerful, of doing exactly what the teacher tells you, of getting big energy, of toughing it out.

And then another kind of person is doing ZZ flowing gently down, surrendering, melting, merging.

 

These are completely different practices done by different parts of you, and which gain totally different results.  However people talk of them as both being Zhan Zhuang .. no they are not.

 

The Controller

Most people are using control.  Control is the ordinary mind of human beings, we control the outside world, we kill everything else, we construct, we fight, we control.  This is the ordinary mind.  If you use the ordinary mind to do Zhan Zhuang then you are somebody who focusses on alignment, controlling your body, focussing, toughing it ... controlling yourself, whipping yourself into shape.   It is the same with controlling meditation, concentrations where you control you mind to focus on one point over and over and over again.

What is the result?  It is the huge growth in the control ... of the ordinary human mind.  Now you have whipped your body into shape, it will submit to you, just like a dictator.  It gets results.

There is emptiness ... because everything else is crushed, everything behaves ... or at least appears to.  Like the servants of a dictator, they all appear to behave ... but ... at some point they will rebel and kill their master because they hate him and he hates them.

That is control ... and most spiritual people ... and most ima people are doing this; they are using their ordinary mind, remixed with spiritual activities.  It gets results, but not spiritual results.

Spirituality is not that easy.

And another thing about control ... a dictator who whips his people, will be very busy.  He will be endlessly busy ... and so he doesn't notice that every day is the same.   A little alignment, a little whipping, bowing to the master and whipping the servants.

And the ego likes to be busy ... because if there are any gaps in his business then he feels afraid of his stupiditiy.

All this is simply the ordinary monkey mind, remixed.

 

True Practice.

... cannot work like that.  There is nobody to subdue to control, there are not teachers to kiss ass to.  There is only the encounter with your reality, in order to integrate and merge and grow the many many parts of you.  Inside are hundreds of parts; some animal, some anger, some corrupt, some holy ... some nasty, some sexy, some peaceful, some insane.

It takes great courage to open them up so they can become one river.   It is a long and brave job.

Whipping everyone ... of course it looks good.  But as the dictator has his back turned, all the parts will rise up and cut his head off.  There is no real integration here at all ... there is just subjugation.

 

So when you hear people talk of spirituality or internal arts ... listen carefully.  The majority are subjugating themselves like a dictator.  They get results, inner emptiness ... just for a time before someone stands on their foot and then there is war again.

 

A few are doing the real work of opening merging ... a higher intelligence bringing all the pieces together, in peace in love ... without fear, and without weakness.

 

A narrow gate.

 

Another interesting thing is that the ego-mind likes to call everything it does "meditation".  It fears that it's hollowness will be discovered, and so tries to shield itself by borrowing big words from others.  This is the cause of Maya.  In this world of so many egos, these people are immitating and concealing their hollowness by borrowing the big words, the biggest they can find, and pretending.  They call themselves Buddhists.

The result is a very confusing world with many practices, many "spiritual teachers", many Buddhists.

And most are false.

It is a treacherous land.
And a treacherous land has its own rules .. one of them is, don't be too clever, you need only dig one well deep ... better than many shallow. 

Another rules is ... everyone is fake, but can I reconstruct the truth for myself based on these breadcrumbs.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Very interesting!  I agree, a holistic approach is the way to go. 

Edited by FaXin

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10 minutes ago, FaXin said:

It seems there is a growing trend in internal martial arts to avoid any use of muscles at all. From my experience, this is a big error. 

 

Yes I agree, very limp these days.

 

Actually if you command your body to "relax" that is still coming from the controller.

The controller is simply the ordinary mind of a human being.

 

To relax is when you are not inside the controlling mind ... it is different.

It is not relaxation actually, it is opening and opening can be very painful because deep layers of ancient wounds tensions and conditionings come out like ghosts and you are confronted with sadness pain misery hatred and so on ... these energies emerge and then you have to integrate them.

To integrate them you have to have a solid basis ... part of you must already be inside the light, if you have 400 fragments inside you, maybe 10 of them have to be already fused into one being in the light ... then the other parts can be loosened opened and integrated into this being.

Otherwise when you open things up .. it is just more mess.

You have to have already seeded the being inside, then you carefully open things piece by piece and add them to the seed, until all is in the light.

So yes there is a reason at the beginning for control, for following, for having a master you bow to.

But ... 

The path cannot be written on a piece of paper, it is not the result of correct practicing.

Ultimately you must want it, and you must find it ... from one light to another.

We can talk in terms of teachers, practices, control and relaxation ... but inside the energy of the light is subtle.

It can be there, or it can not be there.

The reason this world of flesh and blood, of murder corruption death, of dark hurricanes and then rainbows ... this constant terror constant laughter .... is a cruel disney world .. .much light much hate ... we are low creatures to require such suffering to wake up.

We are here due to our lowness, we have much work to do.

Better do it quickly and save yourself a thousand more journeys in the washing machine.

 

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6 minutes ago, rideforever said:

 

Yes I agree, very limp these days.

 

Actually if you command your body to "relax" that is still coming from the controller.

The controller is simply the ordinary mind of a human being.

 

To relax is when you are not inside the controlling mind ... it is different.

It is not relaxation actually, it is opening and opening can be very painful because deep layers of ancient wounds tensions and conditionings come out like ghosts and you are confronted with sadness pain misery hatred and so on ... these energies emerge and then you have to integrate them.

To integrate them you have to have a solid basis ... part of you must already be inside the light, if you have 400 fragments inside you, maybe 10 of them have to be already fused into one being in the light ... then the other parts can be loosened opened and integrated into this being.

Otherwise when you open things up .. it is just more mess.

You have to have already seeded the being inside, then you carefully open things piece by piece and add them to the seed, until all is in the light.

So yes there is a reason at the beginning for control, for following, for having a master you bow to.

But ... 

The path cannot be written on a piece of paper, it is not the result of correct practicing.

Ultimately you must want it, and you must find it ... from one light to another.

We can talk in terms of teachers, practices, control and relaxation ... but inside the energy of the light is subtle.

It can be there, or it can not be there.

The reason this world of flesh and blood, of murder corruption death, of dark hurricanes and then rainbows ... this constant terror constant laughter .... is a cruel disney world .. .much light much hate ... we are low creatures to require such suffering to wake up.

We are here due to our lowness, we have much work to do.

Better do it quickly and save yourself a thousand more journeys in the washing machine.

 


Very nice. Yes I read your first post again and seemed to understand more (hence why I edited my first post.)

 

What does light mean to you? If you don’t mind sharing... 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, FaXin said:

What does light mean to you? If you don’t mind sharing...

 

Light is truth-reality, uncorrupted-ness.

In one sense it means that your beingness has reached the level of Pure Consciousness were you can see Objectively, rather than through the programmed mind of an animal.  You see from outside of the animal, from the perspective of Objective Reality.

At the same time, even animals have rules that are "objective" at their level.

 

Humans unfortunately live with a mixture of animal and higher parts, together they have invented many types of corruption ... how this works is where the higher parts, instead of seeing straight and adding their wisdom to the animal, they become cunning, miserable, depressed and start corrupting things.  Then their higher intelligence is used to hurt, main, destroy, attack.

Animals don't actually do that.

Animals have rules, they have a code.

 

So when you say that a person is acting "like an animal", it is not actually correct, it means that they are acting in a corrupt way using their higher intelligence along with the carnal power of the animal ... in a negative and insincere way.

We work our way up from the darkness to the light, through layers of unconscious, subconsicous, finally conscious.  Everything is earned.

The Objective world is only one direction ... intelligence.  That is the direction of growth.  But intelligence is not IQ, it is intelligence-truth-reality-light-love ... it is one thing.

 

Humans live below a critical threshold of evolution, it is difficult to cross.  At this level there is huge corruption and darkness, because the added intelligence becomes cunning and hateful.  Lower down things are simpler in the animal world.  And above the threshold there is Objective truth.

 

Cross quickly, and without any frills.

 

The Primordial is more or less Pure Consciousness ... once you have it you hold on to it .. but as we have many parts it is no use walking around like an iceberg with a small part above the water in the light, everything below the water full of hate ... all has to be cleaned up on the basis of the light.
But the Primordial also refers to the ancient meaning of reality ... it's ancient Dao. 

Whereas Pure Consciousness is an Object state ... they are slightly different.

But when you sit in meditation they more or less the same, unless you are very advanced.

 

Edited by rideforever
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Very cool, thank you for sharing your insights!

 

Sometimes I wonder if the “animal” side of man is such a bad thing after all. Perhaps it is the catalyst that makes us strive towards our higher truth? If that’s the case, it could be beneficial...

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8 minutes ago, FaXin said:

Sometimes I wonder if the “animal” side of man is such a bad thing after all. Perhaps it is the catalyst that makes us strive towards our higher truth? If that’s the case, it could be beneficial..

 

Yes indeed.  In fact in the subconscious mind is reality.  It is reality at a low level, but it is real because animals are not corrupt.

So if we are a 3 part being :


1 - subconscious animal
2 - ego mind

3 - pure consciousness

 

Then 1 is reliable real but at a lower level, 3 is the truth.   2 is false.

So if you do body work or energy work, you are often working with 1.

 

Unfortunately 2 has brought corruption into the being and has damaged 1, it has made the animal corrupted.  This is actually what I believe "evil" means, it means you damage what was once good.

When humans were "animals" in ancient times, they were strong, they had a code, they had law.  But the ego mind has soften this up, made everyone drunk, brought in corruption and damaged what was once good.

That's my view.

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Also in regards Zhan Zhuang ... I looked yesterday at "Yiquan" by CS Tang, and Inside Zhan Zhuang by Mark Cohen ... two of the best books on the subject, I looked at the advanced sections on the siddhis that very advanced practitioners can get.  And I was not impressed.  I do not feel that ZZ or ima in general is a spiritual practice, it cultivates the subtle qi body but this also dies.

The only book I have seen that has a correct spiritual taoist practice of Zhan Zhuang is a relatively unknown book WuJi Gong and the Secret of Immortality.  This practice corresponds more or less to what I have been taught by my teacher and is the correct Taoist awakening of the Dantien.

In fact in the first two books I mentioned ... the kind of "awakening" they get seems to be simply of Awareness ... which is a general awakening that can be achieved through any practice including knitting and painting ... it is the not the correct taoist awakening.

 

As we can see mankind ... in all spheres of life has no idea what he is doing, relying instead on copying and repeating what was done before with no true understanding.  In the stewardship of the world economy and in spirituality it is the same.  We are a low species that relies on a few chance discoveries that everyone else copied and frankly do not merit.

 

All ima have many benefits ... but not many people seem to practice in a spiritual way, which I suppose is not a problem.

 

This is why one man can make a difference, and why one man can transcend this world and be fully outside of the material world existing in direct communion with the source no longer needing to be created and destroyed as flesh and blood. 

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Yeah, I consider my martial arts practice one for physical health. It makes it a lot less complicated. 

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