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TTC Chapter 18


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18
 When the great Dao is forgotten, human kindness and morals arise. 
When clever people employ their schemes, the great perversion begins. 
When the family have forgotten the natural order, filial piety and devotion arises. 
When the country is in chaos, loyal ministers always appear. 
Set things in order, be at one with the Dao. For when people are at one, there is no need for such things.

 

Any thoughts?

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On 2/7/2020 at 8:59 AM, Tom said:

When the great Dao is forgotten, human kindness and morals arise. 


Oh how I love to quote this line to people :)

 

Morality and kindness implies one is not living one’s natural way, letting the “Great Dao” guide them. Instead, morals are made by men, from their intellect, and is more of a social conditioning. 
 

One not need morals or kindness, as our natural state guides without effort or being taught. 
 

Reality test is when you meet someone who is genuinely kind and loving, versus someone who is putting on an act or “trying” to be nice. 

Edited by FaXin
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On 2/7/2020 at 1:59 PM, Tom said:

18 Fu Feng

When the great Tao is forgotten, Kindness and morality arise.
When wisdom and intelligence are born, The great pretense begins.
When there is no peace within the family, Filial piety and devotion arise.
When the country is confused and in chaos, Loyal ministers appear.

 

This is a very important and telling stanza.

When the people in a society become disconnected from reality their minds creates a virtual world to replace reality; which is similar to the real world but is fake, it is only a mind image and is not connected to the ground.

Human beings move from a grounded reality to virtual reality of the mind quite easily due to their low level of evolution, their ordinary state is a mixture of reality and unreality, and so society fluxes from a more real to a less real one.

In the stanza the unreality is identified through false relations, a great pretense of social relations, fake loyalty, fake piety.  This is very interesting because it means that when people are more unconscious then it leads to a certain kind of social interaction, a group fakeness, a sort of unconscious melange of energy with the unconscious minds of people joining together into a large unconscious mind; a matrix.

The people become ever more "concerned" and pour more of their energy into the black whole of the "concerns" of society that never lead to anything.  Often this is a terminal disease that leads to the implosion of the entire society and its destruction.  Even those cultures (like the Roman) who knew of the rise and fall of nations were powerless to prevent the black hole of the unconscious mind matrix from destroying them.

The frenetic activity of such a society is sapping the vital force of people that pours out of the minds, making them weak.

They are so busy and don't understand that their business does nothing except weaken them.

Only separation and strengthening bones and filling bellies will relieve the situation.

Or self realisation.

 

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On 2/7/2020 at 6:59 AM, Tom said:

18
 When the great Dao is forgotten, human kindness and morals arise. 
When clever people employ their schemes, the great perversion begins. 
When the family have forgotten the natural order, filial piety and devotion arises. 
When the country is in chaos, loyal ministers always appear. 
Set things in order, be at one with the Dao. For when people are at one, there is no need for such things.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Here is my take.

 

Quote

When the great Dao is forgotten, human kindness and morals arise. 
When clever people employ their schemes, the great perversion begins. 
When the family have forgotten the natural order, filial piety and devotion arises. 
When the country is in chaos, loyal ministers always appear.

 

The bolded is the key part. When the Dao is forgotten discrimination arises.

 

Quote

Set things in order, be at one with the Dao. For when people are at one, there is no need for such things.

 

When you are at one with the Dao all the the personal and social issues go away.

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On 2/7/2020 at 6:59 AM, Tom said:

18
 When the great Dao is forgotten, human kindness and morals arise. 
When clever people employ their schemes, the great perversion begins. 
When the family have forgotten the natural order, filial piety and devotion arises. 
When the country is in chaos, loyal ministers always appear. 
Set things in order, be at one with the Dao. For when people are at one, there is no need for such things.

 

Any thoughts?

 

Here is Jeff's take.

 

When the true Dao is lost/forgotten, then people become caught up in attachment.

Such attachment leads to fear of loss and aversion.

When everyone gets caught up in this, it becomes hard to trust,

and without simple trust, the Dao becomes even more hidden.

The road back to the Dao is found with quieting the mind and just doing what needs to be done. (Letting go of all those attachments. In the mind).

*Attachments are desires wrapped in energetic connections. Loving ice cream or addicted to smoking are examples. On cannot be attached to the Dao, but one can be attached to the mental concept of the Dao.

When the true Dao is lost/forgotten, then people become caught up in attachment.

Such attachment leads to fear of loss and aversion.

When everyone gets caught up in this, it becomes hard to trust,

and without simple trust, the Dao becomes even more hidden.

The road back to the Dao is found with quieting the mind and just doing what needs to be done. (Letting go of all those attachments. In the mind).

*Attachments are desires wrapped in energetic connections. Loving ice cream or addicted to smoking are examples. On cannot be attached to the Dao, but one can be attached to the mental concept of the Dao.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Wait so liking ice cream or anything for that matter is attachment? Can't we just like something because its enjoyable or pleasing? If everything is considered attachment or "being caught up" then we might as well not do anything at all. All Beings throughout creation should just come to a stand still and do nothing, like nothing and create nothing.

 

 

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23 hours ago, Ryan said:

Wait so liking ice cream or anything for that matter is attachment? Can't we just like something because its enjoyable or pleasing? If everything is considered attachment or "being caught up" then we might as well not do anything at all. All Beings throughout creation should just come to a stand still and do nothing, like nothing and create nothing.

 

 


One can like or enjoy something and not be caught up with it. Feeling the difference in something you like and something you’re attached to is a very subtle thing that is forever deepening (the peeling of the onion metaphor)

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On 2/23/2020 at 2:42 PM, Ryan said:

Wait so liking ice cream or anything for that matter is attachment? Can't we just like something because its enjoyable or pleasing? If everything is considered attachment or "being caught up" then we might as well not do anything at all. All Beings throughout creation should just come to a stand still and do nothing, like nothing and create nothing.

 

True.  We cannot just criticize everything we do as attachment.  That's not useful

I don't particularly like the idea that you can still have ice-cream but only if you enjoy it less !!!
That does not sound very useful to me.
If you want to practice traditionally through letting the world go, then do so and work "hard" and grab self-realisation.  Then if you wish you can return to human life and pick your flavour.

In other words get something out of the day. 

Either get ice-cream or get self-realisation. 

Don't just sit there with a bowl of ice-cream and try not to enjoy it too much !!!

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