click tracking
Jump to content
Tom

TTC Chapter 3

Recommended Posts

Not exalting the gifted prevents quarreling. 
Not collecting treasures prevents stealing. 
Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies, by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones. 
If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people will not try to interfere. 
If nothing is done, then all will be well.

 

Any thoughts?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2019 at 3:19 PM, Tom said:

Not exalting the gifted prevents quarreling. 

 

Give credit where it is due. Everyone is excellent at something. If everyone learns what they are excellent at they will know their place, there will be no quarreling.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 3:19 PM, Tom said:

Not collecting treasures prevents stealing. 

 

Treasures don't make people want to steal. A mindset of lack can cause such behavior.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 3:19 PM, Tom said:

Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

 

Not knowing what you truly desire confuses the heart.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 3:19 PM, Tom said:

If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people will not try to interfere.

 

If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people are more easily able to rule over them. There are many clever people that don't have our best interests at heart.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 3:19 PM, Tom said:

If nothing is done, then all will be well.

 

If nothing is done, there would be no progress.

 

 

My thoughts on this :)

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Ryan said:

 

Give credit where it is due. Everyone is excellent at something. If everyone learns what they are excellent at they will know their place, there will be no quarreling.

 

 

Treasures don't make people want to steal. A mindset of lack can cause such behavior.

 

 

Not knowing what you truly desire confuses the heart.

 

 

If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people are more easily able to rule over them. There are many clever people that don't have our best interests at heart.

 

 

If nothing is done, there would be no progress.

 

 

My thoughts on this :)

 

So are you saying you disagree with the teachings? For instance.

 

 

Quote

 

Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

 

Not knowing what you truly desire confuses the heart.

 

If nothing is done, then all will be well.

 

If nothing is done, there would be no progress.

 

 

 

Are you interested in going over some of this in more detail as it is very important to understand?

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Tom said:


Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

 

 

As opposed to Ryan, I see this paragraph talks about desire vs not to desire. It seems to be saying that if we desire something, we should be keeping away from it, but to me it's that when you do progress, your desires kinda fade away. A desire is an important part of the progress, for desiring is where we find our talents. 

On 10/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Tom said:

Not exalting the gifted prevents quarreling. 

 

This to me is about humbleness. Being humble before what you do know and can do. There is something else but can't really put my finger on it.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Tom said:


Not collecting treasures prevents stealing. 

 

As it is with the heart-thing too. Talks about treasures both in and outside. If you don't possess, you won't be sad when it's gone, therefore prevents stealing because if you don't own anything nothing can be stolen. Doesn't mean that you shouldn't have anything, I'm talking about the feeling of possession.

On 10/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Tom said:

 

The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies, by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones. 

 

All these things seem to be related. As I stated above, even though you don't have the feeling of possession (or have an empty heart) doesn't mean you are not powerful, doesn't mean you lack something. Doesn't mean you don't own anything. Spiritual emptiness is the key here.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Tom said:


If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people will not try to interfere. 

 

Just keep thinking about Jesus and crucifixion so I don't really understand this statement.  Might be that even though people interfere in a wordly level, you just don't care.

 

On 10/23/2019 at 4:19 PM, Tom said:


If nothing is done, then all will be well.

 

Been doing this a lot lately.... But yeah got to do the dishes at some point. Nah. Maybe it's about the gift of being instead of doing. Again, doesn't mean you are not actually doing anything.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Tom said:

So are you saying you disagree with the teachings? For instance.

 

 

From what I have read, yes.

 

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Are you interested in going over some of this in more detail as it is very important to understand?

 

 

Sure? What do you want to discuss?

Edited by Ryan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/23/2019 at 8:19 AM, Tom said:

Not exalting the gifted prevents quarreling. 
Not collecting treasures prevents stealing. 
Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies, by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones. 
If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people will not try to interfere. 
If nothing is done, then all will be well.

 

Any thoughts?

When there is nothing to be done, nothing to fix, all will be well. If we stop desiring and/or recoiling from the world, what matters becomes stronger. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/25/2019 at 9:31 AM, Ryan said:

 

From what I have read, yes.

 

 

Sure? What do you want to discuss?

 

What type of desires are good and what type are bad?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also reminds me of Rumi.... “ I once had a thousand desires, but in my one desire to know you (God), all else melted away.” 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/28/2019 at 4:22 PM, Tom said:

 

What type of desires are good and what type are bad?

 

I don't feel any desires are "bad" or "good". We usually desire that which will aid in our expansion. Now if we move into the opposite direction or what we perceive as a "bad" desire, eventually we reach a point on that path so filled with despair and realize that particular desire was not what we wanted and then turn around, this time in the direction of a desire that is more in alignment with who we are.

 

So it doesn't matter what road you take, you will get to where you want to go eventually. The one road is just longer and more bumpy.

 

Just my thoughts on this :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ryan said:

 

I don't feel any desires are "bad" or "good". We usually desire that which will aid in our expansion. Now if we move into the opposite direction or what we perceive as a "bad" desire, eventually we reach a point on that path so filled with despair and realize that particular desire was not what we wanted and then turn around, this time in the direction of a desire that is more in alignment with who we are.

 

So it doesn't matter what road you take, you will get to where you want to go eventually. The one road is just longer and more bumpy.

 

Just my thoughts on this :)

 

Meanwhile you are chasing your tail, chasing one desire after another hoping it will fulfill you never learning that it never will.

 

Desires for more, money, fame, a better job, a better home or car are all examples of desires that are fleeting once achieved. The happiness one assumes one achieves is never what one pictured in ones mind.

 

Happiness is never going to be found outside of you. Once you let go of those wants, those desires you will find more than you could ever imagine within you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually understand Ryans point of view. Knowing what you desire and going after them is important for our well being. But i disagree that fulfilling desires are what take us further on the path.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Tom said:

Desires for more, money, fame, a better job, a better home or car are all examples of desires that are fleeting once achieved. The happiness one assumes one achieves is never what one pictured in ones mind.

 

 

Yes it's those desires that will lead the individual to realizing its not what they actually wanted. Some realize this early on and change course, others sadly not. 

 

10 minutes ago, Tom said:

Once you let go of those wants, those desires you will find more than you could ever imagine within you.

 

Superficial desires can be...undesirable however they usually are rooted in traumas and hurt that we have experienced in life. When we clear away the baggage that's when we learn what we really want, what matters the most.

 

I don't feel our core desires can be let go of and by "core" I am referring to our true motivations and aspirations for the Being we wish to be.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Ryan said:

 

Yes it's those desires that will lead the individual to realizing its not what they actually wanted. Some realize this early on and change course, others sadly not. 

 

 

Superficial desires can be...undesirable however they usually are rooted in traumas and hurt that we have experienced in life. When we clear away the baggage that's when we learn what we really want, what matters the most.

 

I don't feel our core desires can be let go of and by "core" I am referring to our true motivations and aspirations for the Being we wish to be.

 

Then you have to realize how to achieve that "core" desire.

 

Here is Jeff's take on the chapter.

 

Quote

Not exalting the gifted prevents quarreling. 
Not collecting treasures prevents stealing. 
Not seeing desirable things prevents confusion of the heart.

The wise therefore rule by emptying hearts and stuffing bellies, by weakening ambitions and strengthening bones. 
If men lack knowledge and desire, then clever people will not try to interfere. 
If nothing is done, then all will be well.

 

Quote

Drop desires and simply live your life (fill your belly). 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Tom said:

Then you have to realize how to achieve that "core" desire.

 

I think that realization comes about by trying new things and living our lives the best we can. 

 

10 hours ago, Tom said:

Drop desires and simply live your life (fill your belly). 

 

I don't feel desires are something to be dropped but perhaps viewed as points of interest on a map, a map of our Being. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are different types of desires, there are desires which feed egoism, and there are desires which keep you alive.

 

The quickest path to self realization is via ruthless self honesty.  Just kidding, actually it's the only path.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Steve said:

There are different types of desires, there are desires which feed egoism, and there are desires which keep you alive.

 

The quickest path to self realization is via ruthless self honesty.  Just kidding, actually it's the only path.

 

I would disagree. I don't believe one can become realized by thinking oneself into it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's for sure, and it isn't what I was implying.  Here's another way of putting what I said.  No one who is into denial will become realized.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, Steve said:

That's for sure, and it isn't what I was implying.  Here's another way of putting what I said.  No one who is into denial will become realized.

 

That's still chasing thoughts one way or another. If you are still caught up in the mental aspect you are far from being realized.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is true that non thinking meditation is the key, but thoughts arise sometimes even when one is attempting non thinking.  Reflections on ones actions is also natural.

 

Meditation prunes away those who are in denial, because they can't face their dark side, so they quit meditating, therefore they do not become realized.

Edited by Steve
  • Like 2
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great convo!

 

”Ruthless self honesty” to me means letting all things arise to the surface. Not quite thinking about them, just shining the light of awareness and letting them fall away. 
 

I like the muddy waters metaphor. The more you splash, the muddier the water gets. It’s only when the water is still, and the dirt settles, the water can become clear. 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...