click tracking
Jump to content
Tom

TTC Chapter 1

Recommended Posts

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. 
The name that can be named is not the eternal name. 
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. 
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. 
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. 
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. 
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. 
Darkness within darkness. 
The gate to all mystery

 

Anyone have any thoughts on the meaning of the verse?

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I thought: 'No thoughts"...

when having no thoughts one sees the manifestations, but what then is the meaning of 'ever desiring'... maybe when as long as we have the desire ... we will see the manifestations.... 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jolanda said:

I thought: 'No thoughts"...

when having no thoughts one sees the manifestations, but what then is the meaning of 'ever desiring'... maybe when as long as we have the desire ... we will see the manifestations.... 

 

I need to edit that post. The any thoughts was me asking for an interpretation.

 

Sorry about the confusion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's an amazing verse and give rise to the common phrase, "manifest and mystery" regarding Dao.

 

I think it may be as close as any verse to suggest, Form = Void.

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/3/2019 at 6:43 PM, Tom said:

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. 
The name that can be named is not the eternal name. 
The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. 
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. 
Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. 
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. 
These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. 
Darkness within darkness. 
The gate to all mystery

 

Anyone have any thoughts on the meaning of the verse?

 

Alright, going to give this a shot.

 

Quote

The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. 
The name that can be named is not the eternal name. 

 

The Tao is emptiness. Emptiness is not a thing, a concept or an experience. If one can conceptualize it, describe it's nature or the experience of it. That is not the Tao.

 

Quote

The nameless is the beginning of heaven and Earth. 
The named is the mother of the ten thousand things. 

 

You can think of us as bubbles of consciousness that arise from/are not separate from emptiness. It is from the nameless that both the manifest and the un-manifest come from.

The named is all that which can be conceptualized, experienced or perceived. All such things are also call the Mother.

 

Quote

Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. 
Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. 

 

Let go of your desires/wants/obstructions and one can see or realize one true nature.

If one still has desires they are still caught up in local mind and all they see/realize is duality.

 

Quote

These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. 
Darkness within darkness. 
The gate to all mystery

 

The secret is to realize that the manifest and the nameless are not two separate things. If you view them as separate then you are in darkness

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/5/2019 at 6:16 PM, Tom said:

Let go of your desires/wants/obstructions and one can see or realize one true nature.

If one still has desires they are still caught up in local mind and all they see/realize is duality.

 

You can't "unwant" what you desire. I think the goal is to move in the direction of what you desire and fulfill it and in doing so, release it. I don't think there are any Beings that don't desire. The primordial Being that made this universe did so to help stabilize newly emerging Beings (according to Jeff's insights). I feel it did so out of a desire to help. When we achieve our goals/desires I feel it creates expansion in us and the more we expand the greater understanding we have of what it is we truly desire.

 

Then one day on one afternoon when we have done all that we hoped and dreamed about, we will look at all there is and feel full and maybe from that point on decide to watch others achieve what they hope and dream.  Eternity lies ahead of us and behind.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, Ryan said:

 

You can't "unwant" what you desire. I think the goal is to move in the direction of what you desire and fulfill it and in doing so, release it. I don't think there are any Beings that don't desire. The primordial Being that made this universe did so to help stabilize newly emerging Beings (according to Jeff's insights). I feel it did so out of a desire to help. When we achieve our goals/desires I feel it creates expansion in us and the more we expand the greater understanding we have of what it is we truly desire.

 

Then one day on one afternoon when we have done all that we hoped and dreamed about, we will look at all there is and feel full and maybe from that point on decide to watch others achieve what they hope and dream.  Eternity lies ahead of us and behind.


 

 

I would agree that it is hard to "unwind", but I do think that desires can be "let go" without fulfillment.  Sort of like people wanting to have millions so they can have more stuff, but realize that they don't need all that stuff to be happy and hence not desire the millions any more.  Like things become less of a big deal.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One thing I get from verse 1 is that creation is infinite and unlimited. You cannot “name” it because it is constantly changing. 
 

the named are the “manifestations” already in existence. 
 

The “nameless” is the potential it has. 

Edited by FaXin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, Jeff said:

 

I would agree that it is hard to "unwind", but I do think that desires can be "let go" without fulfillment.  Sort of like people wanting to have millions so they can have more stuff, but realize that they don't need all that stuff to be happy and hence not desire the millions any more.  Like things become less of a big deal.

 

I feel that if a desire can be let go of without fulfillment then that individual was never in alignment with what they truly desired. If a person want's millions so they can have more things that translates to me as: "I wan't all these things to fill me up cause I feel empty" or "I could never get what I wanted so now I will surround myself with all these things" or "PLEASE NOTICE ME!".

These are just a few of the many reasons people desire money.

 

I feel desire has many layers. At the upper most layers we have the superficial desires or the ones that have been adopted from others or through our own traumas. Then as we go deeper to the inner most desires, that's when we begin to discover what is truly important and what we have longed for and what is at the core of our Being.

 

:)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here is how Jeff described chapter 1.

 

-The Tao is a primordial sea of nothingness.

-Any attempt to fully describe it is useless as it is beyond the mind.

-As such, the part beyond the mind is beyond what we would call the universe (and all dimensions). It is formless and more like infinite potential.

-What can be described is the universe and all of it's many dimensions, and all that exists or has the potential to exist.

-When one clears the mind, desires drop and one can begin to understand the underlying nature of things.

-With an desiring mind, one has a sense of self and hence gets caught up in the issues and the world.

-But, both of these two states (of mind) are really just the same thing. The difference is just perception/relative clarity of mind.

-Quieting the mind and realizing the pristine clarity underneath is the key.

-This realization leads to the broader understanding of the Tao and all its existing forms.
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Tao is not emptiness nor nothingness, it is the set of laws that govern the way the universe operates.

 

When you name (classify things) you end up dividing reality into little bits and pieces, therefore the ten thousand things.

 

Nameless refers to not thinking, which is a way of perceiving the eternal, it is getting to the root of things, the beginnings.

 

Desires are an aspect of materialism, therefore those ruled by desires can see only the manifestations.

 

Without desires, which comes way after enlightenment, a person can stop the influence of materialistic wantings.  This is referring to the sage, or the magus, who experiences magic as a spectator, without wanting it.  The sage can see both the manifestations and the mystery.  These spring from the same source.

 

Being desireless, a person can still feel desires, but of a different type than those who are materialistic.  Practitioners are motivated by the desire to be desireless, which is like darkness within darkness, and is part of the great mystery of the mind.

Edited by Steve
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...