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Tosti

Neidan

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What do you think this means? Are you engaged in any practices that might encompass this? What do you do? If you care to share it is appreciated, if not, it is understood.

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9 hours ago, Tosti said:

What do you think this means?

Good question. The term came to mean any and all ancient chinese practices aimed at personal salvation. It is used in that sense by the historian scholars and modern practitioners. However it was not used in that sense by the ancient chinese. To them it meant 'an energetic medicine' - not the practice to obtain it.

There is another sense to this term. In modern parlance it means a modern energetic practice allegedly identical to the true ancient one. But it is not identical, it is a fake imitation.

 

here is a good read on the ancient approach

https://ignisetazoth.blogspot.com/2017/02/liu-i-ming-on-how-to-read-hsi-yu-chi.html

 

 

9 hours ago, Tosti said:

Are you engaged in any practices that might encompass this? What do you do? 

Basically what the GF says.

 

 

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In China every man and his dog has a practice and brags about its lineage and miraculous effects.

I was skimming through Damo MItchell's book the other day, it says in it that Neidan is not connected to enlightenment and one would need to do meditation practices.  Michael Winn says something similar.   

Well this is something coming from such experienced people.

But this is only partly correct.

People just don't know what they are doing.

They have techniques ... but have not real concept of what they are doing, or where enlightenment happens, or signifies , they don't even know who is doing anything.  Chaos.

Anyway ... the best easily available text on the Taoist awakening (which goes downwards from the belly ... whereas all other traditions go up into the head ... massive difference) ... is WujiGong and the Secret of Immortality.

The Secret of the Golden Flower has a type of enlightenment that is a mix of two centres  partly in the Tantien and partly in a centre between the eyes.  But very few people who follow that ... follow the instructions in the book.   

They do other varied practices and called them Golden Flower.

But such is mankind.

Give them a straight line and 5 minutes later you will get a zigzag back.

Incomprehensible they are ... and look at the state of the world they have made.

Many people like to just read ancient books with strange words.

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I'm pretty skeptical about Mitchell and Winn, even though Winn has some interesting articles and all that.

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If you are going down on the Titanic then being skeptical or non-skeptical will not help you.

The only thing that will help you is to find a life boat and lower it into the water and get in it.

Anything else results in entering the cold ocean in a fur coat, pockets full of money, and dying of shock two minutes later.

Perhaps, you were in the middle of an interesting conversation, or a book lay half open waiting to be finished.

In the vast Atlantic, under a cold and silent sky, hundreds of frozen people bobbed along their coats money and dreams frozen in death.

The Earth did not bat an eyelid.

 

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21 hours ago, Tosti said:

What do you think this means? Are you engaged in any practices that might encompass this? What do you do? If you care to share it is appreciated, if not, it is understood.

 

We should not make too much of the term "neidan" for it simply means Internal Exercise and is a coat that buttons up over many practices. Waidan on the other hand means external exercise.  Both of these terms tend now to be covered by the umbrella term Qigong meaning simply energy exercise.

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28 minutes ago, Chang said:

 

We should not make too much of the term "neidan" for it simply means Internal Exercise and is a coat that buttons up over many practices. Waidan on the other hand means external exercise.  Both of these terms tend now to be covered by the umbrella term Qigong meaning simply energy exercise.

 

But if that is not what they were then why is it what they are? Qigong cannot be Neidan in the sense that it was for the Ancients. Moderns change words to suit their preferences but things in themselves do not change. 

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10 minutes ago, Tosti said:

But if that is not what they were then why is it what they are? Qigong cannot be Neidan in the sense that it was for the Ancients. Moderns change words to suit their preferences but things in themselves do not change. 

 

Yes and no.   If one explores pre-neidan/pre-waidan then the neolithic times were doing dances to help with wetness.   There are a dozen terms that characterize the earliest, most ancient and various activity that one could put under Qigong.   And what of spirit/god visualization that Puett has so widely written on... where did that go ?

 

So there is a march towards change and change it all did... and mix with Buddhist practices... and most all the ancient stuff was lost.   

 

I'm not against Neidan but I see it as a life long dead-end. 

 

JMO  :)

 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, rideforever said:

Tosti, what is your experience of ... these things.

And what are you looking for ?

 

I have had numerous experiences over the decades(not all of which are easily classified but which taken together gives one a good glimpse into the platonic realm at the least). I generally don't discuss most of my experiences openly because they often lead people astray. What I am looking for here on this forum is information. In particular I am able to judge a level of knowledge from the responses to certain questions. 

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4 minutes ago, Tosti said:

 

 

What kind of information are you looking for ?
Do you do any practices are you looking for technical information on self-realisation ?
Do you want inspiration ?
Do you want someone to explain your experiences ?
Why do you mention Neidan ?

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1 minute ago, rideforever said:

 

What kind of information are you looking for ?
Do you do any practices are you looking for technical information on self-realisation ?
Do you want inspiration ?
Do you want someone to explain your experiences ?
Why do you mention Neidan ?

 

I have an interest in Neidan and texts relating to it, both from a historical(even with my limited ability and no ability at all in language) perspective as well as an aesthetic one. I have studied Western Alchemy over the years and esoteric truths in general. I practiced martial arts for many years(and taught, etc), Kung-fu and others. When I was young I became interested in Taoist philosophies and western esotericism and along with a great deal of entheogenic experiences allowed me to progress in my own strange leap-frog fashion. I mention Neidan because that is what I am here to mention.  My reasons(as reasons often truly are) are probably unfathomable and therefore unexplainable.

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