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PatrickJB

Is Sean's Diversity Really Exclusivity?

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Events are becoming more bizarre as time goes by at 'the other place'. I mean, ironically, I was one of the people always up for talking about human sexuality etc yet was ignored and shouted down. I'm quite open to discussing what sexuality is and what it means etc. Sean saying "simpler, flatter forums will promote more cross-pollination between us" is all very well but it's not what he's doing is it? :blink: He seems to be causing more divide with "for women and female identified" and "for men and male identified" or is he simply peddling a false ideology? Hey sex has nothing to do with politics, or shouldn't have, but of course the left have appropriated the whole sexuality agenda and weaponized it for political ends!!! I'm sure there are just as many democrats and republicans together with non political people that are concerned about this skewing of reality/sexuality. Is identity politics a good thing or an evil scourge that needs to be seen for what is i.e A mechanism devised to pervert governments and the populaces into submitting to minority opinions so a few can gain power and control?   

 

Anyway here's the whole post if anybody wishes to comment without fear of being defined (!) as a right wing sexist racist!!!!! I left Sean's link so, if inclined, you can see how the proposed changes are shaping up, or not. 

 

Quote

EDIT: Revised based on suggestions. You can see latest along with revision history here:

https://gist.github.com/seanomlor/d3c6caca3263bfe3706fd54456316f66

 

I'd like to simplify the forums a bit.

 

The biggest change I'm wanting is to merge Daoist Discussion and General Discussion, along with many of the subforums.

 

Given the nonsectarian roots of this space, I've never been super stoked on the compartmentalization of e.g. Buddhist vs Hindu, etc. etc. It's also a can of worms because we're certainly excluding innumerable traditions.

 

My feeling is that merging a bunch of these separate forums into one big, weird "Discussions On The Way" simpler, flatter forums will promote more cross-pollination between us.


Anyway, here's a quick rough draft of what I'm imagining the new forum/subforum structure to be.

 

THE COURTYARD

 

- Welcome! (merges Welcome and Newcomer Corner)
- Discussions On The Way (previously Daoist Discussion)
    - 道家学说
    - Textual Studies (merges Daodejing, Zhuangzi, etc.)
- Vast High Weirdness ( still working on this name, previously General Discussion. The word "general" just feels so boring.)
- The Rabbit Hole (merges "The Rabbit Hole", "Off Grid". Basically an off topic forum to talk about whatever, but not an "anything goes")
- Meta-Talk (merges Forum and Tech Support, Moderation Logs, Rules and Use)
 
PRIVATE GARDENS

 

- Group Studies
- Personal Practice (still has everyone's private subforums under this)
- Gender Gardens
    - Nonbinary (for nonbinary, gender questioning and intersex)
    - Women (for women and female identified)
    - Men (for men and male identified)

- Interviews
- Lending Library
- Local Meetups and Events (merges Local Meetups and Upcoming Events)

 

Please discuss, definitely want to hear your feedback, concerns, any subforums you think should still be separate for whatever reason, etc. etc.

 

Sean

 

 :wacko:

 

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Just look at his photo, it's deathly white .... "this is what I am, a skeleton".
No colour, no happiness, no joy.

He is a dangerous person because instead of making an attempt to follow spiritual teachings, or show restraint, or do any work on himself he has decided to ... do what he is doing without restraint.

But then again look at the name, the Tao Bums.

Bums ?

These people have a degenerate spirit.

And it is the same with many in the gloom-world of society, they seek revenge ... if I am miserable so shall everyone else be, let me cut this community into 5 pieces then I'll feel better.

Revenge for something that never happened, except on twitter.

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Well it's a fact that the place has gone from bad to worse and Sean pointing fingers and banning people for no reason is a symptom of the madness that's taken over. 

 

It didn't take long for Ralis to start the same diatribe he's been at for years: :mellow:

Quote

Does he speak out against this? No! He pushes the narrative of hate and violence!

 

Then Sean posts this!!! :unsure:

Quote

image.thumb.jpeg.8ed0486b684f7459f1c01c4177d87041.jpeg

 

According to Earl Grey there were (!) far right types at the bum!! :ph34r:

Quote

The Far Right departed this forum, I am hoping gullible, self-assured morons who can’t stop mentioning in every thread colonialism, David Icke, and pseudoscience conspiracy theories from Zechariah Sitchin will leave and join the Far Right members in a long march into the orifice of Rush Limbaugh and out of his worthless mouth and into the airwaves for his worthless constituency to hear again and again.

 

And again Sean is showing how ill he is with he contradictory comments: :wacko:

Quote

Looks like Ohio shooter was a self-identified lefty on Twitter.

 

I'm sure this will will immediately be spun into "bothsidesism". I also worry it's going directly into the canon of Trump admin's "Antifa bill".

 

I do think there are crucial differences between these shootings though.

 

The El Paso shooter published a manifesto with explicitly right-wing political ideology mirroring things said by Trump, Fox News, Breitbart, etc. There was also clear, far-right celebration of the attack e.g. on 8Chan and even Twitter.

 

Conversely there's nothing in the left-leaning hodgepodge the Ohio shooter seemingly subscribe to that would have done anything other than condemn these attacks and certainly nothing to motivate them. There are also exactly zero leftists that find these attacks anything other than 100% wrong and disgusting.

 

Sure, leftists will joke about punching Nazis, or, at the extreme even killing fascists to protect innocent lives. Maybe you find those things problematic, that's a legit conversation. But absolutely nowhere will you find "go on a shooting spree killing your sister, her boyfriend and other random, innocent people of color in public". This was not an ideologically leftist attack.

 

If this were a leftist, say, shooting at ICE officers ripping children from their parents I think there would be a pertinent conversation about left-wing extremism. If this shooter were actively involved in actual leftist circles, I can see how we'd need to have a conversation around the failure of those spaces for not identifying a violent individual.

 

Otherwise I think the bothsidesism in this case conflates motive and ideology.

 

My two cents.

 

Sean

 

So Sean's thread will probably decay in to a frenzy of hatred which of course is fine because the left have the moral high ground, don't they?  

Or are they just perpetuating their echo chamber mentality? 

 

So happy to be away from all that dross and, basically, mental illness! 

 

Oh and I'd wish Sean would stop trying to popularise this idea/term "bothsidesism" as it's just childish and simply highlights his illness. 

 

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In the "old days" the elders would match man and woman according to their birth chart and the position of celestial objects that present at the time of birth.  This discovered the type of each person and found a suitable mate.

Such pairings reflect the flow of celestial energy, the combinations that were known to be mutually beneficial.

It was an excellent and normal system for conscious beings who could feel these things.

 

Our society no longer feels very much and such things are very far beyond its capability.

But perhaps it was always for only a few.

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1 hour ago, rideforever said:

In the "old days" the elders would match man and woman according to their birth chart and the position of celestial objects that present at the time of birth.  This discovered the type of each person and found a suitable mate.

Such pairings reflect the flow of celestial energy, the combinations that were known to be mutually beneficial.

It was an excellent and normal system for conscious beings who could feel these things.

 

Our society no longer feels very much and such things are very far beyond its capability.

But perhaps it was always for only a few.

 

Well superficiality is certainly a byproduct of our modern times. I used to wonder why people hide themselves in the guise of stereotypes? I mean how can you attract like minded people etc if you can't even express the real you? This is why I accept people outside of the norms if I feel they are genuine as there's nothing wrong with colour and diversity as long as it's not contrived! Standard dress sense is cool but there's nothing wrong with a motif or two! 

 

This old dressing up in an extreme way and dyeing of hair seems to be a new cycle for youth culture as it seems to come around with the cycle of fashion. It does nothing for the chances of the youth meeting truly like minded people and in fact it's probably damaging to their life experience. But is it just peer pressure or do these kids have problems dealing with the society their parents allowed to come into being? I don't know as I don't have children.

 

I think the real problem is the youth that get stuck in this adolescent clown world and then become adherents to extremist doctrines of whatever kind. I didn't even use the term 'clown world' in the political sense but it does seem to be a meme that works very well in summing up the mindset of this minority group of extremists. The problem with adult children is that their extremism knows no bounds and they are often of the do or die mentality. There is perhaps a parallel or thread which runs through all extremist ideological types and births the suicide bomber cult type? It's a worry! 

 

2838A59400000578-3064802-image-m-15_1430     

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I don't see much anymore in the West, nobody is doing anything, it's a childish game.
Mostly I read old books and listen to old people who still remember something.

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Posted (edited)

The "bothsidesism" idea is a fairly effective way to shut down all discussion and thought. Extreme leftists have a love for those sorts of concepts...the type of concepts that shut down their reasoning, shut down their exposure to other ideas which are actually intelligent, and which are concepts that seem to gather more power for their team (by eliminating the other team...at least from their awareness).

 

They do a similar thing when they clap and shout slogans in order to drown out the voices of their opponents. It makes them feel like they're winning.

 

Luckily, anyone with half a brain can see through such antics and irrationality.

 

...

 

I was disappointed to see numerous long time bums, and apparently spiritual practitioners for many years (I could name them specifically, but I'll refrain), questioning the spirituality and morality of those who were kicked out or asked to leave. How low can one go? A lot has been said of the right wingers who left the forum...that they are the "far right", "Nazis", "racists", etc...and it's all gone uncontested by even the supposed moderate leftists there (I wonder if they're just scared of Sean's extremism?).

 

How low can one go, to question the morality of someone who isn't there to speak up for themselves? Who you could have had a conversation with, to try and understand their POV...rather than speaking ill behind their back from a position of ignorance, in an echo chamber.

And these people, who knew us for many years, didn't once speak up for us as our friends when we were irrationally asked to leave (friendship extended, being the key sign of someone with actual spiritual progress, as opposed to someone who pretends to be advanced in order to prop themselves up).

I primarily left due to the complete lack of friendship I saw from nearly everyone who is still there (at least who is involved with the recent threads), and not because Sean asked those on the right to leave. Their actions revealed their true character. I expect more from spiritual practitioners - not to make themselves feel good by constantly pretending to be the pinnacle of morality, propping up their false self to compensate for how weak they are internally... but to actually become good people!

Edited by Aetherous

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8 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

The "bothsidesism" idea is a fairly effective way to shut down all discussion and thought. Extreme leftists have a love for those sorts of concepts...the type of concepts that shut down their reasoning, shut down their exposure to other ideas which are actually intelligent, and which are concepts that seem to gather more power for their team (by eliminating the other team...at least from their awareness).

 

They do a similar thing when they clap and shout slogans in order to drown out the voices of their opponents. It makes them feel like they're winning.

 

Luckily, anyone with half a brain can see through such antics and irrationality.

 

...

 

I was disappointed to see numerous long time bums, and apparently spiritual practitioners for many years (I could name them specifically, but I'll refrain), questioning the spirituality and morality of those who were kicked out or asked to leave. How low can one go? A lot has been said of the right wingers who left the forum...that they are the "far right", "Nazis", "racists", etc...and it's all gone uncontested by even the supposed moderate leftists there (I wonder if they're just scared of Sean's extremism?).

 

How low can one go, to question the morality of someone who isn't there to speak up for themselves? Who you could have had a conversation with, to try and understand their POV...rather than speaking ill behind their back from a position of ignorance, in an echo chamber.

And these people, who knew us for many years, didn't once speak up for us as our friends when we were irrationally asked to leave (friendship extended, being the key sign of someone with actual spiritual progress, as opposed to someone who pretends to be advanced in order to prop themselves up).

I primarily left due to the complete lack of friendship I saw from nearly everyone who is still there (at least who is involved with the recent threads), and not because Sean asked those on the right to leave. Their actions revealed their true character. I expect more from spiritual practitioners - not to make themselves feel good by constantly pretending to be the pinnacle of morality, propping up their false self to compensate for how weak they are internally... but to actually become good people!

 

It is sad.

 

They truly believe it is a good thing to kick out people with opposing views.

 

A perfect example of group think unfortunately..

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25 minutes ago, Tom said:

 

It is sad.

 

They truly believe it is a good thing to kick out people with opposing views.

 

A perfect example of group think unfortunately..

It is, yes. Inevitable too, imo. Fires stoked.

Good post, Scott.

Trivia for @rideforever : Tao BUMS was created in 2006? in protest by sean and a handful of people who were tossed out of a forum for not complying with or conforming to the spiritual groupthink. Ironic, huh.

:lol:

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31 minutes ago, Aetherous said:

And these people, who knew us for many years, didn't once speak up for us as our friends when we were irrationally asked to leave (friendship extended, being the key sign of someone with actual spiritual progress, as opposed to someone who pretends to be advanced in order to prop themselves up).

 

I'm hoping a few more will come over and I hope people here who still have accounts will invite people to join us. I mean if they don't like it here they can go back right? Or even use both forums! What a concept!! 

 

I wouldn't go back even if Sean un-banned me as I didn't do anything to deserve being banned in the first place other than question what Sean was doing which was to exclude people many of whom were/are long standing members. 

 

So I'll answer my own question:

"The Dao Bums is an exclusive forum which has become a soapbox for extreme left wing views and those that would 'tolerate' such views. I very much doubt many conservatives would sign up to a far right forum so..."

 

Note: I said 'tolerate' as I did until I was banned for no reason other than having a different opinion to the führer! Of course views will probably become more extreme without counter arguments being put forward by balanced individuals. 

 

I say again that I do hope many more will join us here for a balanced discussion on all subject matters.   

 

I wash my hands of the other place. 

 

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4 minutes ago, rene said:

Trivia for @rideforever : Tao BUMS was created in 2006? in protest by sean and a handful of people who were tossed out of a forum for not complying with or conforming to the spiritual groupthink. Ironic, huh.

:lol:

 

Ironic indeed! :D

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Posted (edited)

Yes, now they are discussing banning traditions they don’t like.

Edited by Tom

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17 minutes ago, PatrickJB said:

 

I'm hoping a few more will come over and I hope people here who still have accounts will invite people to join us. I mean if they don't like it here they can go back right? Or even use both forums! What a concept!! 

 

I wouldn't go back even if Sean un-banned me as I didn't do anything to deserve being banned in the first place other than question what Sean was doing which was to exclude people many of whom were/are long standing members. 

 

So I'll answer my own question:

"The Dao Bums is an exclusive forum which has become a soapbox for extreme left wing views and those that would 'tolerate' such views. I very much doubt many conservatives would sign up to a far right forum so..."

 

Note: I said 'tolerate' as I did until I was banned for no reason other than having a different opinion to the führer! Of course views will probably become more extreme without counter arguments being put forward by balanced individuals. 

 

I say again that I do hope many more will join us here for a balanced discussion on all subject matters.   

 

I wash my hands of the other place. 

 

Washing your hands is good.

 

Letting it go now is also good; no reason for LU to become a TDB subforum.

 

ZZ said there's a springtime in every moment... and he was right.

 

I'm glad you, and others, are here, now.  I look forward to the possibilities that will manifest as we each dump out our own tea cups!

 

Warmest regards (-:

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1 minute ago, Tom said:

Yes, now they are discussing banning traditions they don’t like.

 

LOL

Well I can only see as an outsider so don't really know what's going on and to be honest I'm not that bothered. Having said that who can resist gossip?  B)

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Just now, rene said:

Washing your hands is good.

 

Letting it go now is also good; no reason for LU to become a TDB subforum.

 

ZZ said there's a springtime in every moment... and he was right.

 

I'm glad you, and others, are here, now.  I look forward to the possibilities that will manifest as we each dump out our own tea cups!

 

Warmest regards (-:

 

Yes I've no real animosity other than Sean is making himself look foolish and has really damaged the bums as a forum. 

 

Hey ho! 

 

I might not even be here that much in the future as I have things to do. I think I'm trying to help kick-start this place, as I'm sure others are, so it will thrive and grow. Hey we all have quiet patches when we feel like having some depth to our discussions or maybe the opposite and just want a good laugh! :lol:   

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1 minute ago, rideforever said:

 

What was the name and interests of the previous site ?

I don't know. I joined the Bums in 2008; @david might know.

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33 minutes ago, rene said:

I don't know. I joined the Bums in 2008; @david might know.

 

I think I knew at one time... but let that go ;)

 

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16 minutes ago, david said:

 

I think I knew at one time... but let that go ;)

 

 

:lol: 

 

Yes I have selective memory as well which means I remember very little about anything! :mellow: 

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I was really disappointed to have been banned from TDB. Over the 10+ years I'd been an active member there, I believe my conduct had been exemplary. Sure I've had disagreements with folks, that's part and parcel of a discussion forum, but I never insulted anyone and tried to help people 'on the path'. No 'right-wing bullshit', as Sean calls it, was ever posted by me. I never posted in any political threads because that's not why I was there. To be banned by Sean, just for disagreeing with his definition of the word "Transphobia" was pretty disgusting. No warning, no messages, nothing. Just frozen out of the site altogether. All my posts, topics, PM's which had some very useful information, not to mention the sentimental value of some stuff, sitting there without myself being able to access anything.  Why is it those on the political left shut down any dialogue they don't agree with ? What are they scared of ?

Some of the current members were shocked at the way I've been treated and have messaged Sean to ask him to reconsider, but to be honest, the way it's going, I might be better off not going back. It's quite sad, as TDB was the only forum that I visited. I don't do Facebook, Twitter or any social media, and so TDB was my only outlet. 

I've asked for an explanation from Sean, not surprisingly, none has arrived. 

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The shit is hitting the fan as 'Walker' is really going for it and has even disrespected Marblehead!!! Marbles was the corner stone of the bums and did nothing wrong as far as I remember. On the contrary Marbles keep the place running and was an example to all regrading restraint and right conduct. 

 

Anyway here's part of 'Walker's' thread which I'm still reading:

 

Quote

I guess as the last few years wore on I saw enough smug, seldom-retorted pro-Trump-isms and alt-right-conspiracy-isms pop up (with "likes" applied to many of them by a certain fairly outspoken mod) to lead me to conclude that this reflected the culture of those in charge here. I mean, look at one of the most prolific members, who popped up in nearly every thread and got close to 50,000 posts. Now, I know Marblehead is beloved to some here, but I recall a fair bit of pro-Trump rhetoric from him, and that was not necessarily the central problem. To me, the problem was that he also resorted to blatant misogyny when he got into a disagreement with a woman, and much later resorted to an attempt at "ask about me in the streets" bullying to try and silence me personally when I disagreed with him. For whatever reason he seemed to catch no flak, so later, when 8-Chan/4-Chan madness started to infiltrate the site, I came to believe that whoever was making the decisions here was cool with the directions the winds were blowing in. 

 

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Walker was asked to clarify what he meant by the political/right-wing stuff spilling onto other sections of the forum, as it didn't happen at all...and then went into a rant (which was really half reasonable...I'm not sure why he's aligned with Sean's extreme leftism to be honest), which didn't at all address the question.

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10 minutes ago, lifeforce said:

I was really disappointed to have been banned from TDB. Over the 10+ years I'd been an active member there, I believe my conduct had been exemplary.

 

I hope this place becomes home for many of us. I won't be able to post excessively as I will soon have to do some work but I hope we can all get this place humming along. It seems that Sean has simply snapped as I was also banned without reason. Also, see, post above some are know slagging off Marbles which is simply disgusting. 

 

Anyway Lifeforce stick around and we'll have a hoot! :) 

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Just now, PatrickJB said:

 

I hope this place becomes home for many of us. I won't be able to post excessively as I will soon have to do some work but I hope we can all get this place humming along. It seems that Sean has simply snapped as I was also banned without reason. Also, see, post above some are know slagging off Marbles which is simply disgusting. 

 

Anyway Lifeforce stick around and we'll have a hoot! :) 

 

Poor Marblehead ! One of the most likeable forum members I've ever come across and so sad that he's no longer with us.

I agree, we can get this place humming along and I'm now looking forward to it.

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