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  2. rideforever

    TTC Chapter 16

    Emptying the mind of everything is not possible. You can pretend. And you can repeatedly empty it, but it is not a stable state of being. As you observe nature it returns to the source like a great machine breathing into and out of the universe. But who is doing the watching, inside you? Are you returning to the source? Can you see yourself? Mankind is lost in the world, they do not see themselves. The mind. The heart. No tantien ? It is not mentioned, therefore he only sees the Tao externally and is a philosphical Taoist. An immortal is one who has the mind / heart / tantien and has allowed the Tao internally to return. Many small creatures act naturally, they are not eternal, they are unconscious machines pushed around by great forces. The Tao flows through them ... and like straw dogs destroys them. The Tao is eternal but the creatures are burnt as required. If you are burnt as required then this is not a path to your eternity. This is the difference between seeing things outside ... and causing your own being to return to the source. For the straw dog they are part of the energy system of the entire universe, but the sage has individuated himself through discovery of Self, and he has his own energy flow to the Source. He has changed from a leaf on the tree of the universe, to a mirror of the universe at a small scale and become his own tree planted into the Source directly.
  3. FaXin

    TTC Chapter 16

    I like this line. Makes me think that since the 10,000 things arise from Yin and Yang, and then the One (and Dao), that it’s all from the same source. Get to the source and you will have insight into the 10,000 things. Just like realizing and feeling the energy of all things is the same energy, you have the insight that the minutia of all phenomena is just a play of that One thing. Wonder if it could be the same thing.
  4. Tom

    TTC Chapter 16

    16 Empty the mind of everything, let it reside in peace. Being at peace you can watch the Ten Thousand Things rise and fall. They follow their natural path and eventually return to the source of all things. This is the way of Nature. Returning to the source is stillness, for Nature is unchanging. Knowing this constancy is having insight into all things. Not knowing this leads to disaster. Knowing the source, the mind is open. When the mind is open the heart will be open too. Being open hearted, you can act naturally. Acting naturally, you will be at one with the Dao. Being at one with the Dao, you will be at one with Heaven and Earth. Being at one with Heaven and Earth, you can become eternal. Although the body dies, the Dao will always be eternal. Any thoughts?
  5. Tom

    TTC Chapter 15

    Here is Jeff's take. The old masters knew what they were deeply connected to the Dao. The depth of there knowledge and connection was beyond what is noticeable by others. Because of this, all we can do is watch and pay attention to their actions. Watch with total focus and be completely alert. Watch without getting caught up with your own attachments and prejudices. Simply be open (sort of like full body listening). Letting the activity (mud) of the mind settle quietly. Realizing the Tao is not a goal to reach, not a desire to fulfill, it is simply completely residing. *The Dao is all. The universe could be described as the one that emerged from the Dao. A human or human behavior is part of 10,000 things which are also born of the Dao. *To make it even more confusing, I would describe the 0ne as actually the motion of the Dao. Or you could say that the One should be a verb...
  6. Earlier
  7. Tom

    TTC Chapter 15

    I would agree. To me this is a key point.
  8. FaXin

    TTC Chapter 15

    Great verse! To me this is all about being present in the moment. The more present we are, the more we can "be at one" The rest happens naturally.
  9. rideforever

    TTC Chapter 15

    I think this is about the end of self-reference. Humans live by continuously checking themselves, considering their position in the world and what people think of them. The movement of the ego, the continuous thinking, is self-reference, it is a continuous self-checking like a switch of partial self-recognition that flickers on and off continuously. When awakening is mature the being no longer has this. He has a clear continuous self-recognition, there is no self checking, and no ego movement. He is one with himself, as he wills so he moves, when he moves he moves as a whole. There are no parts to him, he is one. Later even the ego falls into the black hole of his being. As for his actions in the world, what he does and doesn't do ... is unknown. Courteous, yielding, simple and empty ... But even the Tao has dark storms, and when they crash and rage with the lightning forking out of them, they are courteous, yielding, simple and empty.
  10. Tom

    TTC Chapter 15

    15 The Ancient Master’s were subtle, mysterious, profound and alert. The depth of their knowledge was unfathomable. Likened to the Dao, they were at one. Being at one, all we can do is observe their appearance. Watchful, like men fishing in a stream. Alert, like men aware of the tiger. Courteous, like visiting guests. Yielding, like a blade of grass. Simple, like uncarved blocks of wood. Empty, like vessels. Opaque, like muddy pools. Lying still and waiting quietly, who can wait for the mud to settle? Who can wait for the mystery to be revealed? Do not seek fulfilment, but feel the Dao in your heart. By not seeking fulfilment, nothing is changed. The Ten Thousand Things rise and fall without interference Any thoughts?
  11. Tom

    TTC Chapter 14

    Here is Jeff's take. 14 Look, it can never be seen, for it has no form. Listen, it can never be heard, it is beyond sound. Grasp, it can never be held, it is intangible. Although it can never be seen, heard or held, its spirit is always there. For it is formed from nothing and so returns to nothing. It is beyond description, But it is the Mother of the Ten Thousand Things. It has no beginning and no end, but it is great. Stay with this (in your heart) the ancient Dao, but move with the present. Knowing the Dao is the ancient beginning of all things.
  12. Tom

    TTC Chapter 14

    Emptiness is the infinite potential from which all things arise. It is found within. The move with the present.. seems to say don't just stay there or cease into emptiness but also be that arising that is all things.
  13. rideforever

    TTC Chapter 14

    Look, it cannot be seen - it is beyond form. Listen, it cannot be heard - it is beyond sound. Grasp, it cannot be held - it is intangible. I don't like him defining that it is beyond form,sound,intangible. Too many claims here. Just say you don't know. This world we see through vision and sound and touch ... within it we sense something else. With the outer senses of the head we can identify a world, but from our belly we sense something else alive within it. The Force that flows, that is the cause origin, and conveyor. Which is the true form ... that which our senses capture ? Or do we one day experience that as a dream, with the true form being the spirit. And perhaps later we realise that it is our inexperience that captures light sound and form ... as unholy ... because they are also holy but only great sensitivity can experience that. Visual light is like the eyes of God. These three are indefinable; Therefore they are joined in one. Reaching down through this world we find one origin, mater, light, and sound ... emanates from it in different planes of the manifest. .... Stay with the ancient Tao, Move with the present. Connected within to the source we move within the outer world. Later there is only one world.
  14. Tom

    TTC Chapter 14

    14 Look, it can never be seen, for it has no form. Listen, it can never be heard, it is beyond sound. Grasp, it can never be held, it is intangible. Although it can never be seen, heard or held, its spirit is always there. For it is formed from nothing and so returns to nothing. It is beyond description, But it is the Mother of the Ten Thousand Things. It has no beginning and no end, but it is great. Stay with this (in your heart) the ancient Dao, but move with the present. Knowing the Dao is the ancient beginning of all things. Any thoughts?
  15. Tom

    TTC Chapter 13

    Here is Jeff's view. Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition. What do I mean by "accept disgrace willingly?" Accept being unimportant. Do not be concerned with wealth, titles, loss or gain. If you are not concerned with these, you can always "accept disgrace willingly". What do I mean by "accept misfortune as the human condition?" Without a body, how could there be misfortune! For misfortune arises from having a body Surrender yourself humbly, then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self, then you can truly be trusted to care for all things.
  16. Tom

    TTC Chapter 13

    All the things mentioned are of the ego mind. Again he is describing different aspects of obstructions, of wants and desires. Things of the mind that people can get caught up in. Accept it when things happen and let it go, go with the flow.. While one is still in the dualistic mind there are issues and fears, wants and desires. Surrender or let go of such desires is the way to move beyond the ego. Realize you are more than the body or that you, the body and the world is your true self. With such a realization there is no misfortune!
  17. Billa

    TTC Chapter 13

    Really like this analogy here.
  18. rideforever

    TTC Chapter 13

    Surrender yourself humbly, then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self, then you can truly be trusted to care for all things. From these two lines you can see Laozi is pointing to a very high state, and he doesn't mean become an ignorant vagabond. Seeing the ignorant vanity of the world you no longer chase the things of the world, you rest when the work is done and do not seek attention. But in practical life being in disgrace might cause you a lot of problems, so a middle place will attract less attention from the crowd then disgrace. As for "the body" ... who can meditate without a body ? It is both our enemy and also our vehicle ... a mountain is only a problem if we refuse to climb. Do we have a "body" ? As you look out of your eyes ... you can't even see your body, is it still there ? What is a body ? Is it a layer of physical-consciousness ? is it a vehicle ? is it an emanation of our consciousness ? Is it in the end ... our true substance ? Or just an other layer ? Is it our guardian angel and guide ? It is exceptionally complex, we are fools compared to its power. I make a small intention with my will and the body springs into action navigating this world like a master. When I screw up, the body bleeds, heals and forgives me. I bow before this body, it is much greater than I. Who could make such a thing ? Only God.
  19. rideforever

    TTC Chapter 13

    If there is a large business in LA selling hangers, and it wants to expand to the Congo in Africa. So it opens an office there. The office can work in three ways : 1) The office does nothing it ... just takes orders and deliveries and has no "resistance", the source company can't really expand into the new territory because it's produce is not adapted for the Congo. Also the new office in Africa is not growing, it's really dumb terminal and not helping the source company. 2) The office and its staff start to get their own ideas and has too much "resistance" and make a mess of everything ... sooner or later it burns out. 3) The office takes orders from back home in LA, but it does some hard work to knit together the LA company with the local conditions in the Congo. In this way it creates a channel adapted to the local conditions and extends the source company into the new territory. The office itself has to mature and develop skill in the local conditions, and as it becomes successful the office stays alive and grows. Eventually it becomes a permanent feature of the source company.
  20. Jason

    TTC Chapter 13

    Funny thing about electricity. It'll run through a copper wire pretty well, but all wires, even the best ones, have resistance. This resistance generates heat, and at a certain point - if enough electricity runs through the wire - the heat will melt the wire and it will fail. So, as you can see, it's not the electricity, but the wire's resistance to the electricity that breaks the wire.
  21. Tom

    TTC Chapter 13

    13 Accept disgrace willingly. Accept misfortune as the human condition. What do I mean by "accept disgrace willingly?" Accept being unimportant. Do not be concerned with wealth, titles, loss or gain. If you are not concerned with these, you can always "accept disgrace willingly". What do I mean by "accept misfortune as the human condition?" Without a body, how could there be misfortune! For misfortune arises from having a body Surrender yourself humbly, then you can be trusted to care for all things. Love the world as your own self, then you can truly be trusted to care for all things. Any thoughts?
  22. Tom

    TTC Chapter 12

    Very interesting concept of leaking energy. Wouldn't that be dualistic and where would the energy go?
  23. Tom

    TTC Chapter 12

    Here is Jeff's take: .
  24. Tom

    TTC Chapter 12

    Here is my take. It is all about desires. " For having in excess, dulls the senses. When the senses are dulled, men look for more stimulation. Racing and hunting fever the mind Precious things cause greed to arise in Men’s hearts." Chasing, wanting more, needing more of sense objects is not the way. "Therefore the Sage is guided by what he feels, and not by what he sees." What does a Sage feel? A Sage is one with the flow of the universe, unattached to sense objects.
  25. rideforever

    TTC Chapter 12

    I do appreciate travelling through the TTC chapter by chapter with people, it is a good journey to do things like this.
  26. FaXin

    TTC Chapter 12

    It seems to me that this verse is talking about being too caught up and attached to worldly things... the five “thieves” or senses. “For having in excess, dulls the senses. Which cause people to search for more stimulation” Sounds very buddhist to me But truth is truth no matter what way you slice it. The funny thing is, I use my senses to reground myself when I’m caught up or stressed. Which leads me back to Yin and Yang. There is both positive and negative in all things. Feeling the senses, observing, but not taken away with the object we are sensing.
  27. Jason

    TTC Chapter 12

    I find it odd that the Sage is guided by what he feels. That seems to contradict the portion immediately preceding.
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